that you can raise the $1.20 trillion that he wanted at the time without raising rates, by doing it by eliminating deductions and exclusions, which is the more rational way. obama's, and debt reduction commission had recommended that you raise tens of revenue for the federal government, you do tax reform, and you actually lower rates while you expand the base, and the reason is that if you raise rates, you injure economic expansion, if you lower them, you exhilarated, and by making deductions, you make the tax system a more fair wind. you have the lawyers who work around the rates and and they have lobbies -- >> may i say -- >> no principle involved? >> i heard the july 2011 statement argument first ramesh lemmel. -- first from rush limbaugh.